Comments for God Loves Animals at http://www.johnsmulo.com , comment 1 to 25 out of 20 comments http://www.johnsmulo.com Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:08:35 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-5899 animals have souls and God loves them. When we die we will see the animals and people we loved. we will also see the ones we wronged, animals and people a like. can't have one without the other i don't think. Why humans are so cruel? It is so saddening, aren't we supposed to have compassion and mercy. We want mercy from God but then we do not have mercy for animals. I am disgraced to be human sometimes. The way animals are hurt is just horrible. They never done anything wrong. As a child I went to christian school. I read the bible, but even as a child i remember feeling so sad that no one talked about kindness to animals... it just was not talked about. My God loves all things. God don't care what fur or no fur, how intellingent, what species, what race, gender, what size brain. I don't beleive God created animals for humans to hurt and abuse. - s Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:11:56 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2585 That's cool - I'll get around to trying again once I've read the rest of the comments... - fernando Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:21:38 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2580 Fernando, My apologies for this. Today's post addresses this. - John Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:42:49 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2560 I've tried to post on the other thread, but for some reason an invlaid email message comes up - might try again tomorrow. - fernando Fri, 23 Mar 2007 02:27:26 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2555 Phil - I'd add Micheal Northcott at Edinburgh Uni. - Brodie Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:50:39 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2554 Fernando The parallel topic on this blog that John has put up about creation takes note of the weaknesses in evangelicalism generally. The prominent theological voice specifically on animal theology is Andrew Linzey at Oxford. And of course Rosemary Ruether springs to mind in the eco-feminist stream. One of the weaknesses that I intuit in several of the works of systematic theology (Moltmann, Pannenberg, Barth) is that the discussions do not very often extend beyond the Biblical tradition into any extensive dialogue with the animal rights movement literature, much of which is highly critical and dismissive of Christianity (e.g. the writings of Peter Singer, Steven Wise, Steven Bartlett). The issues raised by these rights writers goes to ethical questions and matters of praxis. - philjohnson Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:07:48 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2553 The notion that animals are not taken seriously in academic theology doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Look at any systematician who takes the doctrine of creation seriously and it is there, Panneberg and Barth obviously come to mind. Of course, the question of degree of emphasis is always there, but that is true of a lot of topics, not just this one. I think the far more interesting question is why popular theology, vocational ministry curricula and church educational programmes don't really address the issue. - fernando Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:41:20 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2551 Philip, Thank you for raising the animal law courses. With Singer, I hear you with his utilitarianism. For me it was especially his information on factory farming and research in places like university's that most grabbed me. - John Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:09:07 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2549 I would encourage people to enrol in Animal Law courses (which one can audit as a non-lawyer). My wife and I did the very first animal law course in Australia in 2005. It was intriguing to learn about the status of animals at law, and since there is very little existing law it was necessary to look at philosophical and ethical questions. What struck me is that the field is dominated by people who are alienated from Christianity altogether and who really see the Church as one of the major causes of problems for animals. It seems to me that these views do need to be contested, and my law lecturer (a secular Jew) found that his own negative impressions required a rethink in light of the essays that my wife and I wrote. The animal liberation position of Peter Singer is based on a dubious utilitarian philosophy. However I must state that in his book he did a very careful job of describing intensive farming practices without resorting to emotive or exaggerated portraits/allegations. I must also say that in my law course experience I was disappointed to see so many practitioners (ie solicitors and magistrates enrolled) who knew very little about jurisprudence (philosophy of law), and thus they found it very hard going grappling with philosophical questions raised by Singer, Tom Regan, Steven Wise and other writers. There is as always a need for Christians to participate at the grassroots level, and in the academy on this area. It might also be worthwhile noting that the conservationist movement and the animal rights movements are at polar ends of the spectrum on the problems associated with animals generally. The conservationist perspective is possibly viewed in a more positive light by most people than the activist-liberationist-rights perspective. However, as I have pointed in my public discussions and writing it is possible to develop a very positive and practical stance on the rights issue from a distinctly biblical and theological standpoint without succumbing to the problems inherent in the secular philosophies. Anyway, it is great to see some discussion and reflection occurring here. - philjohnson Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:57:49 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2539 Sally, That's where I'm coming from. Though I have to say I almost became a vegetarian after reading Peter Singer's Animal Liberation. There's lots of good reasons for doing so. Though I haven't taken that step personally yet, I may in the future. - John Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:44:25 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2538 Shannon, I don't think animals should be valued more highly than human life. I know you didn't want to start a discussion about this, but I don't think that it's even necessary to have one regardless. We should simply be thinking "How can we best take care of all of God's creation--humans, animals, the environment, etc?" I think all of creation can be cared for in a way that honors the Creator. - John Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:43:23 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2537 Webb, I always new you had a soft side :) - John Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:40:43 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2534 like Adam I have also lived on a farm- we farmed pigs and they were our source of income and food- but they were always well cared for and certainly not factory farmed- I don't think it is wrong to eat animals- but we must respcet them, many cultures have much to teach the pre-packaged West about respect! - sally Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:45:29 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2533 Simply put, I think animals should be regarded as an important part of God's overall creation but never placed over the value of human life. I don't intend to open a whole new debate on this issue as a result of that statement either. ;) I'm subscribed to PETA's newsletter and I often read articles and watch the videos and my heart is heavy at the way animals are treated and abused around our world for the purpose of "humans" as well. I once had an employee to whom I gave my very much loved dog to as I just couldn't give her the care and companionship she needed. Her name was Roxy. Anyway, he called me one Sunday after I got home from church and said she had died. He had a "choker" chain on her and had her tied up to a tree with bushes around it and she got caught up in the bushes and in her attempt to get out, she had a stroke in the 100 degree weather. I'll always regret giving her away. :'( - Shannon Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:39:51 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2532 Confession of an old, hardened ex-logger/trucker: I quit hunting tears ago after feeling really sad that I shot and wasted a deer because I didn't find it until days later. It still bugs me when I hit a bird or deer while driving. But, I'm still a carnivore and I don't have the time to research where the meat came from. :) - Webb Kline Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:25:17 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2531 Adam, I think most of us who didn't grow up on a farm do have illusions about animals. Everything comes prepackaged. I do the same as you, though we normally try to buy free range, organic. I think most of us are sheltered from factoring farming, and the kind of research that is allowed to take place in universities around the world that is grossly unethical. - John Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:20:42 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2529 I grew up on a farm. I lived around a lot of animals. Some were pets, some were food and money. I have no illusions about animals. I eat meat, drink milk and wear a leather belt and leather shoes. And I believe that God's plan is for all of creation. So there. ;D - Adam Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:15:13 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2527 Sally, You raise a very important point about us needing to see ourselves as part of creation. I agree that we often miss that, and this has implications for how we view the rest of creation. - John Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:05:10 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2526 Paul M, Love that website. I haven't watched those before. Very well done. - John Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:01:39 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/god-loves-animals-7.html#comment-2525 Matt, Thanks for raising this on your blog as well. I also really liked your post on (Midnight Oil frontman and now politician) Peter Garrett's thoughts on Christians, politics and ethics today. - John Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:42:43 +0100