Comments for Church Affiliation at http://www.johnsmulo.com , comment 1 to 39 out of 20 comments http://www.johnsmulo.com Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:09:39 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7059 Steve, I agree church shopping has consumerist and syncretist overtones, but the question is, what if you're a convert to Christianity? There are times where choosing is legitimate. Since becoming a Christian I have only switched once, and that was prompted by us moving house and a desire to join a church near where we lived. I think it needs to be recognized that at least some of the switching that goes on is prompted by our more geographically mobile lifestyles. - Matt Stone Sat, 10 May 2008 03:11:51 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7057 My experience has been, like many commentators, pretty diverse. I was raised Catholic (Mass every Sunday and "holy day of obligation") but left that church at age 17 after studying different religions, then the Bible. I spent a year in a Presbyterian (PCUSA) church, left over the Re-Imagining Conference and a few other things I didn't like, and joined a small community church with no denominational affiliation. Early the next year, my second semester in college, I was baptized by immersion and began preaching later that year among independent Christian Churches. After a mission trip I enrolled at a Church of Christ university and got a BMin. The day after graduation I was ordained by the elders of a Christian Church. Christian Churches and a cappella Churches of Christ are part of the Stone-Campbell movement, but differ over a few things. I became a missionary in Brazil working alongside Brazilian evangelists planting a Church of Christ with partial support from Christian Churches in the US (confused yet?). After returning stateside I took a position with a Christian Church, nearly lost my faith in the aftermath of that fiasco, and now find myself in a Church of Christ again (composed of Brazilian immigrants). I wanted desperately to leave this movement entirely during my dark valley years (2005-2006) but my wife wasn't good with that. So, here I am. I think I am good with it. When people ask what I am, I say I am a Christian. If they want details, I say I am a member of the Brazilian Church of Christ in Newark, NJ. More? It's part of the Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement, and I think of myself as missional. Then they ask was "missional" is, and that's a whole other can of worms. ;) - Adam G. Fri, 09 May 2008 10:08:09 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7054 I find these questions rather difficult, because principle and practice diverge so widely. For one thing, I think the whole idea of picking and choosing a local church is syncretist, being dominated by the value system of a consumerist society, which I've blogged about here: Notes from underground: Putin picks a church? I believe that ideally one should be part of one's local church, and that one does not "choose" it but one is placed in it by God. Having said that, I don't live by it, but find myself part of four local churches, one of which I helped to start, and none of which is really my local church. - Steve Hayes Thu, 08 May 2008 20:06:43 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7043 Actually, thinking about it more, why I hang out with the Aussie Baptists has very little to do with the so called "Baptists distinctives" and much more to do with people and attitude; the unofficial distinctives. Quite simply I find them more open to missional thought and more open to disagreement on secondary matters than some of the other options I have open to me locally. My own brand of Christianity is so eclectic (influenced by evangelicals, orthodox, mystics, mennonites, etc, etc) that it is hardly Baptist, better described as a tradition of one, as self contradictory and ironic as that sounds. Really, when it comes to whom I associate with, its not peripherals like denominational distinctives that matter so much. It's whether others can look past my ideosyncracies and accept me as a brother in Christ based on core essentials. I am willing to lay my hat with any denomination that does that. - Matt Stone Tue, 06 May 2008 23:32:04 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7042 Margaret, I'm going to have to rip off your labels in the future ;) - John Tue, 06 May 2008 18:49:50 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7041 Sally, Congratulations on the soon to be Rev! I know you've been working toward this for quite some time. - John Tue, 06 May 2008 18:49:28 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7040 Dave Quinn, Thanks for sharing. I can relate. - John Tue, 06 May 2008 18:47:30 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7039 Fernando, Thanks for sharing your background with denominations. - John Tue, 06 May 2008 18:46:30 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7038 When people I ask me, I just tell them that I'm a mutt....or hybrid. - Margaret Tue, 06 May 2008 04:12:23 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7037 Well John, I am a Methodist and will soon be Rev. Sally. Coleman I prefer ecumenical working, and always smile at a friend who labels herslef as an Episcobaptocostalist :) - sally Mon, 05 May 2008 14:04:40 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7035 Thanks for replying John, I suppose my aversion to the new legalism of having to pray a certain amount each day, read the Bible a certain amount each day, witness to all the lost, etc. keeps me from supporting a giving mentality within the body (from a behavioral standpoint). The shame we carry that keeps us from being transparent slowly fades as we learn more about true grace and mercy. We also need witnesses who go before us and show us how to be transparent. Then, we know what it is like to truly belong, not because of what we do, but because of who we are and what we have gone through. I would like to see people be guided into giving ministries based on their talents and gifts rather than needs in the church. Too many (women especially) guilt themselves into doing too much and get burnt out because it is not their calling or area of gifting. Watching people find their area of calling and enjoy what they do is very exciting. The church is somewhat responsible to find areas where giving can happen, both inside and outside the body. However, to beat a dead horse, when looking for a church I believe healthy receiving comes before giving. As far as my own denominational affiliations, I was born and raised in the Church of The Nazarene, which came out of Wesleyanism, which came out of Methodism, not sure what that came out of. I was in a Baptist school from preschool through 4th grade. I stick with my denomination due to their belief in holiness and grace, and also due to being a creature of habit and comfort. A weakness of the denomination is their focus on behavior holiness rather than heartchange holiness...although they might not see it that way. Their fear of being transparent keeps them in a legalistic style of holiness rather than radical heartchange holiness. - Elaine Mon, 05 May 2008 09:28:59 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7033 Hi Elaine, On the receiving end, I see teaching and corporate worship as significant parts of what should be the norm for those who are part of a local church. But I think if this is all we receive, there will continue to be a sense of restlessness for people. I think other things such as grace, acceptance, and meaningful relationships are also very important. Yet these things are so often lacking. People--far too often--exist in local churches as shells of who they really are, often being afraid of being judged by others if they're truly transparent. On the giving end, I think people should give of their spiritual gifts, time, finances, grace, etc. - John Mon, 05 May 2008 07:33:08 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7032 Matt Stone, Thanks for sharing Matt. For me, I think that I still resonate most with Australian Baptists, though I'd be surprised if I ever found any one denomination that I felt completely at home in. - John Mon, 05 May 2008 07:10:37 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7031 Steve Hayes, Thanks for sharing more of your personal journey. I'm embarrassed to say I've still never experienced an Orthodox service. I need to. If the Orthodox Church doesn't believe in denominations, how does it view Catholics and Protestants, as well as, say, Presbyterians and Anglicans? - John Mon, 05 May 2008 07:00:15 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7030 Jason Silverthorne, Thanks for stopping by and sharing about the denomination you're a part of. I'm really interested to know more about St Pixels if you have any feedback as well. The idea of an 'internet church' has captured my attention for quite some time. - John Mon, 05 May 2008 06:56:43 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7029 Carl Nystedt, I strongly resonate with what you say about there needing to be a willingness among believers to allow for secondary doctrinal distinctives. I think its very sad that core Christian doctrines and practices aren't enough to unite Jesus-followers everywhere. - John Mon, 05 May 2008 06:40:49 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7028 Hi John, I got saved in a Baptist Church 20 years ago, spent time in a Church of Christ, then met my wife and moved to an Apostolic Church, then Pastored a Church of Christ. Now looking at starting a non-denominational house church. I am a bit like you where I feel part of the universal church and have a leaning towards the simple model of house church. It just seems to be where God is leading me. - dave quinn Mon, 05 May 2008 01:49:02 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7027 I attend a local church and it's an interesting question whether I "belong" or not. It's a non-denominational church, like the last one we attended (where we did "belong"). I was raised nominally Catholic, grew through the Baptist church, attended an Anglican church for a while and have some pretty big Mennonite influences. For me denoms are really brands - they are a way of navigating the question of attending, belonging and finding one's place in the faith. I don't place much store in the accountability argument either. It's a good idea, but my experience is that it doesn't work out too well in practice. - Fernando A Gros Sun, 04 May 2008 21:44:21 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7026 John, If I had to break down the reason for going to church it would be to find spiritual education. If I were to be looking for a Biblically sound education, the need for critical thinking would enter the picture. This, however, might mostly be relevant to a new or non-believer. Giving for these persons would come from healthy spiritual growth as a natural outpouring of the Love of Christ in their lives. The believer looking for a church would be striving for a place to enter into corporate worship first, and then education. Using the organized church as a means to give is (I believe) a secondary benefit. There are so many ways and means by which to reach out to others, believers or not. I agree that our culture has created the ultimate church hopper that will focus on what they can get out of something, whether it be social or even financial networking. However, I want to blame this on the lack of truly sound and fervent teaching of the truth in the Word. (it is always easier to blame it on the 'others'). I suppose it would help to know exactly what you mean by giving. - Elaine Sun, 04 May 2008 20:19:27 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/church-affiliation-2.html#comment-7025 Well my local church is Australian Baptist. It's not a perfect fit but it's not a bad one either. And I'm growing into it more as time goes on. In my journey I have also been a member of a Catholic and a Sydney Anglican church, have tasted some Pentecostal services along the way, and theology wise am deeply indebted to the Orthodox and Mennonites amongst others so its a pretty eclectic mix. I suppose where I am now is that I have a deeper appreciation of tradition than I used to but still see many pros and cons when it comes to denominationalism. One of the pros is the accountability it provides, one of the cons is the devision within the body of Christ that it can sometimes foster and parochialism when it comes to other traditions. I suppose I would advocate an "open" attitude to tradition; one where commitment and accountability is appreciated as a virtue but so is listening and humility towards other traditions. - Matt Stone Sun, 04 May 2008 18:28:31 +0100